SuperInfluence: Creating Conviction & Connection
In This Episode
We often go into conflicts trying to persuade others to see things our way, which can lead to tension or even resentment. Learn what SuperInfluencers do differently to transform conflicts into fruitful conversations.
Wanna dig a little deeper? Check out the research referenced in this episode.
Bowen, Jenny. "Bowen Family Systems Theory and Practice: Illustration and Critique." Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy v20 n2 (1999): 94-103
Jacques, Fred J. "The Role of Self-differentiation in Predicting Emotional Intelligence and Leadership" Int. J. Work Organisation and Emotion, v1 n 4 (2006): 379-398
Transcript
Vanessa Tanicien: Hello, and welcome to the Leader Lab, the podcast powered by LifeLabs Learning. I'm your host and LifeLabs leadership trainer, Vanessa Tanicien. In each episode, my Labmates and I distill our findings into powerful tipping point skills, the smallest changes that tip over to make the biggest impact in the shortest time. Hey there LeaderLab listeners, we're continuing the conversation on SuperInfluence. What we're talking about specifically are people in the workplace who are able to impact behavior without relying on authority. It's pretty exciting stuff. Know the traits that are actually going to take you and your colleagues to the next level while you're creating connection and making progress happen. To unpack another SuperInfluence skill today, we have Robleh Kirce back in the lab. His fun fact this time around? Apparently he's lost 30 points in cryptocurrency holdings over the last two weeks. So, sorry about that and welcome back.
Robleh Kirce: But then I just made back 10% today. So you just never know. It's a whirlwind.
Vanessa Tanicien: Thinking about SuperInfluence, Robleh, what are we going to be experimenting with today?
Robleh Kirce: I think it starts with an understanding of the difference between persuasion and influence. Hopefully you see persuaders when you’re buying a used car, right? But that's not the only time. Those people that they're pushy, trying to persuade you. They're looking out for themselves in that situation. People that are influential in our lives, these are people we trust. They provide us with a deep feeling of being understood. We want to hear what they have to say. And that's really what we're talking about today.
Vanessa Tanicien: Well, I definitely know that there's a difference between persuasion and influence, but I'd like us to dig down a little bit further. How do we get on over to the influential side?
Robleh Kirce: What we see in influencers is they're actually doing some things that gain trust all of the time, not just specifically when they have a particular area they want to build influence. They bring this kind of cognitive strategy that changes their behaviors, something I like to call conviction and connection. Now with conviction, this is a sense of what's important to ourselves, things that we value. Connection is understanding of where we fit in the system, other people's priorities and how we interact with them. If we can maintain a sense of both conviction and connection, folks see us as naturally influential. We develop trust with them. They see us as being stable. They see us managing our stress and their stress well.
Vanessa Tanicien: So this idea of conviction and connection is really interesting to me because I often think of them as like diametrically opposed. But you're saying both of these things need to happen.
Robleh Kirce: The kind of secret sauce here for the academically minded is a concept called self differentiation. This was originally introduced by David Bowen, a psychologist that looked at family systems. It's also been brought to the workplace by Friedman, McKenna, a couple other folks as well under the concept of leadership differentiation. It's a pretty complex subject. To reduce it to I think one of its simplest elements, differentiation has to do with our ability to manage our own stress and not put it on other people and also not take on the stress of other people around us. Think about a leader that you really appreciate. My guess is they've got strong opinions. They have a sense of who they are. They are also very much aware of what's going on for others emotionally day to day, what their priorities are.
Vanessa Tanicien: Mm, got it. So I'd love to be able to break this down and put it into practice. What does this look like in action?
Robleh Kirce: Love the question. LifeLabs, we're all about the behaviors. What are we going to do differently because we've had this conversation? So let's think about a place where you would like to be more influential. I know this is tough because you're already very influential at LifeLabs. But what's an area where you'd like even more influence?
Vanessa Tanicien: So let me think about that one. Okay. So I run a pretty mean meeting, hats off to myself. I know, I give myself compliments on the air. But one of the things that I would love is for us to be able to do in our larger scale meetings, as we're growing as a company, it becomes much more important for meetings to be run well. And it really matters to me.
Robleh Kirce: Yeah. I've been in some rough meetings. I've attended them with you. I know what you're talking about. That's great. Now we've got the area we want to be influential. Now we want to take some time and do what I call pre interaction awareness. Now, at some point, you're going to try to talk to someone about having better meetings, right? Your goal will be to be more influential with them. And we're not going to be persuading them. We're not going to come in with an argument of here's the five reasons these things suck and here's how we should make them better.
Vanessa Tanicien: That's definitely going to win them over.
Robleh Kirce: Yeah, exactly. Well, this is how the average person goes about it. Now here we're going to take the time to build conviction and then build connection, before you even start the conversation. So let's start with three questions on the conviction side, quick thought exercise. So first I want you to think about what's really important to you about having better meetings?
Vanessa Tanicien: Better meetings to me mean a number of different things. I think at a bare minimum, we want to get the things on the agenda done. But basically because ideas are shared, decisions are made, whose voices are prioritized, is your meeting playful or is it stiff? Are people building connection within that space? All of that matters. Culture is built in the way that you run a meeting and it basically helps push culture forward.
Robleh Kirce: Yeah. So meetings for you are kind of a representation of the broader culture at LifeLabs. Definitely makes sense for why it's important to you. Second question here. What have you done, in other words, how have you contributed to the bad meetings of the past?
Vanessa Tanicien: Okay. I see what you're doing here. When folks are trying to get people to behave differently, they often just say you, you, you, versus coming in with how I've done it. So thank you for pointing that out. And I basically know that I've become a bystander, just totally check out the more people that are on that meeting invite. So yeah, that's what I'm doing.
Robleh Kirce: Hey, social loafing. It's a real thing. I suffer from it too. We can have a social loafing anonymous meeting later. Third question I'm going to ask you, what are you going to have to give up to get better meetings as you define them?
Vanessa Tanicien: Mm. That attitude that it's just going to happen on its own. I mean, if there's anything I do know, it's that when people are contributing, when people are engaged, it really multiplies. We had that conversation in Massella's episode about role modeling, and it can honestly happen at any level. So I need to step up to the plate, you know?
Robleh Kirce: Yeah. So when you see other people being disengaged, that's a cue to you. Actually, I'm kind of creating that, right? I'm going to have to start being more engaged myself if I want to see better meetings. Great. So with those three questions here, help us build greater sense of conviction. Now let's turn around and talk about connection. We're going to think about others here. Consider the person you're going to have this conversation with. What do you think is important to them in those meetings?
Vanessa Tanicien: Definitely just getting through it, getting it done. I think at the end of the day it can be pretty flustering to facilitate that large scale of a meeting. So people are just trying to get it over with.
Robleh Kirce: Yeah. This meeting, and then we got the next meeting we're trying to get through too. So just making it through the action items. Go to the second one here. What are they going to have to give up to get better meetings?
Vanessa Tanicien: Hmm. Some of the progress that we'd like to make. At the cost of a little bit of progress, are we creating time to showcase the values and ways of being that really matter to us?
Robleh Kirce: Yeah. Or maybe even just redefining progress with them. They might have to give up their current definition of progress. Let's go to the third one here. What will they gain if they do adopt better meetings, as you define them?
Vanessa Tanicien: I mean, people love them. I mean, we're in meetings every day. If you can be a person who runs a good meeting, I mean, I've seen a lot of respect lost or gained in the way that somebody facilitates. So I think everybody wants to be synonymous with that high level skill.
Robleh Kirce: Yeah. That makes sense. So they're going to be looked at as a role model across the organization on the types of meetings they're able to produce.
Vanessa Tanicien: What I really love about this idea of conviction and connection is it seems like it could be applicable at any level for any person, honestly anywhere.
Robleh Kirce: Yep.
Vanessa Tanicien: And that's pretty awesome. But let's take it back into the workplace for just a moment. I'm curious, what are the impacts that you've seen when people are truly using this particular SuperInfluence skill?
Robleh Kirce: This is one of those small change, big impacts that we're always looking for at LifeLabs. Starting at the individual level, you see different outcomes, right? Some folks are over convicted. So they, once they start enhancing connection, they start calming down a little bit on their ideas. They don't steamroll other people. They actually speak up less inside of meetings. Other folks that are maybe too high in connection, not enough on conviction, they start speaking up more. The impact of all of this though, is that people start looking to them for advice. You kind of know how well you're doing on this based on how many people are coming to you looking for input from you. If you're maintaining conviction and connection, it'll happen. Now at the group level, you start to see all those outcomes that we're looking for in the workplace. People have a sense of psychological safety. Team meetings function better. There's less gossip happening across the workplace. It's somewhere that we all want to be.
Vanessa Tanicien: I love that. And that brings us to our LeaderLab listener experiment. Robleh, what are we asking people to experiment with in their laboratories of life?
Robleh Kirce: So pick an area you'd like to see a difference. And then before you engage anybody about this, do a little bit of pre-interaction awareness and think about your conviction, meaning what's really important to you about this. What have you contributed to the current situation? And what are you going to have to give up if you see this change? Then develop that connection. Think about what's important for them. When that does happen, what are they going to have to give up? And ultimately, what will they gain?
Vanessa Tanicien: Thank you so much for walking us through conviction and connection. I'm already feeling a little bit more influential. Thanks Robleh.
Robleh Kirce: Hey, you influence me. Thanks Vanessa.
Vanessa Tanicien: And that's a wrap of another episode of the LeaderLab. Make sure to subscribe and share this with at least one other person so we can all be SuperInfluencers. It's pretty awesome. The LeaderLab is executive produced and hosted by me, Vanessa Tanicien. NeEddra James is our Senior Producer and Alana Burman is our Director and Editor. If you'd like to hang out with us on social, go ahead and find us on LinkedIn at LifeLabs Learning and on Twitter, @LifeLabsLearn. To bring training to your team, head on over to LifeLabsLearning.com. See you in the lab soon.
